[PD/TD] Re: [CS-FSLUG] Activist Republican Judge Says CA Marriage Law Unconstitutional

[Aaron Lehmann]

On Sun, Mar 20, 2005 at 07:52:09PM -0500, Alvin Smith wrote:
> On Sunday 20 March 2005 07:12 pm, Aaron Lehmann wrote:
> > On Sun, Mar 20, 2005 at 06:58:39PM -0500, Alvin Smith wrote:
> > > On Sunday 20 March 2005 05:22 pm, Brian Derr wrote:
> > > > Rather than wasting our time making laws that drive the lost away from
> > > > the Word lets befriend them and show them the love of Jesus.  After all
> > > > it is what Jesus would have done.
> > >
> > > Really?  Based on what scripture?
> > >
> > > It is after all the moral law of the 10 commandments that shows a man
> > > that he is in sin.  Without that law how would a man know that he is a
> > > sinner?  What would be the point of "showing the love of Jesus" to
> > > someone who does not need a Saviour in their mind?
> > >
> > > Whether a nation's government passes moral laws is immaterial to the
> > > believer. He still has to show a sinner that sin is very sinful by
> > > showing him the Law of a Holy God in order for him to see the true love
> > > and sacrifice of Christ.
> > >
> > > Otherwise there is no repentance, and no conversion.
> >
> > True.  But do you believe it is the government's place to be convicting
> > people of sin?
> 
> What do you think the "law of the land" is?

The law of this land is the Constitution, and the accretion of laws that
have grown up around it.  The law of the Kindom of God is the Bible.

> 
> > And if so, what if at some future point the government 
> > chooses a different definition of sin than what's in the Bible?
> 
> Such as allowing the murder of children?

Yes, this is an example.  Do you want to have to tell your children that
our faulty human government is the authority for what is right and
wrong?

> 
> You see, it is OUR FAULT that things have gotten as bad as they are already.  
> If the church does not take a stand, then who will?  Ok, let them take God 
> out of all education and then wonder why schools are so dangerous.  

I'm of two minds about this issue.  I do bel;ieve that children need to
learn about God.  I also do not want the government teaching them about
it, as that is their parents business.  I would not like to pay to have my
children taught about Allah the Most Merciful, therefore I will stand
for my Muslim neighbor's right not to pay for his children to be taught
about Jesus Christ the Lord.

You are right.  It IS our fault that we are where we are.  We have
trusted our government to feed, clothe, house, and provide medical
attention and education to the poor.  We have trusted them to visit the
prisoner, and raise our children.  Now that it is apparent that the
government is not the proper institution through which we should do these
things, believers should be standing up and doing them themselves as the
Church of Christ.  We should not try to modify our government to do what
it should not be doing, but rather fix our Church to fulfill its
Commission.

> 
> Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God 
> had made.
> 
> As Satan can change himself into an angel of light, so did he abuse the wisdom 
> of the serpent to deceive man.
> 
> We are either for God or against Him.  We have to open up our mouths and speak 
> the Word of God, show compassion for the lost, and represent Jesus to the 
> World.  

I'm not sure how this relates to the government.  I am not my
government, and my government is not me.  I have compassion on the lost,
and I speak the truth in love.  I DO NOT wish to pay my government to do
these things, as it will do them incorrectly and at great cost to my
wallet and my liberties.

> 
> There is no grey area.

If that were so, we wouldn't be disagreeing.

Aaron Lehmann