TD: Re: [CS-FSLUG] God Didn't Say That

[Timothy R. Butler]

>
> Ok. But, how wide of a spectrum and how deep of a scar does having 
> thick
> glasses, skinny, fat, geeky, and shy have compared to being a 
> homosexual,
> deaf, blind, crippled, and mentally challenged have?

	Depends on the situation, person, etc. I fit "fat, geeky, and shy" and 
its bounced (heh) off of me fairly well... although there are times... 
but there are plenty of people where that wouldn't be the case. Being 
introverted helps, if I was an extrovert, it might be more of a 
problem.

	A lot of it depends on your own perspective on your attributes. If 
someone would accuse me of being geeky, I would take that as a 
compliment or, if I knew better, I'd deflect it since I'm not ashamed 
of being a geek.

	Some homosexuals (many, likely) are going to view their orientation as 
a positive attribute. Therefore, it would impact them differently than 
being deaf or crippled. Then again, someone who is deaf might actually 
see that as positive too. See what I mean?

	Look at it this way: if someone attacked me for being a Christian, 
something I see as a very positive attribute, it will be a different 
kind of thing from someone attacking me for being overweight, a 
negative attribute. I'm not saying I'm overly conscious about the 
latter, I'm merely using it as an example. In the former, it hurts, but 
I still know I am right, which "makes all the difference," as Robert 
Frost would say.

> Do you get turned down from a job cuz your geeky or wear thick glasses 
> or for
> being skinny? It may have happened, but not often am I right?

	Geeky, thick glasses and other appearance issues are well known to 
hurt people for promotions and stuff. Skinniness doesn't generally seem 
to be, although it could too at times.

> But how often do women, homosexuals, wheelchair bound, hearing 
> impaired,
> mentally challenged people get turned down for a job. I'd say very 
> quite
> often. Has happened to me many a times.

	Sure.

> What I'm trying to say here is that none of us know for a fact or not 
> whether
> homosexuality is a decision or a disease and just because a couple 
> people
> that claimed to be homosexual decide to become a hetrosexual and vice 
> versa
> really doesn't prove anything to me.

	It might be part psychological and part physiological. Either way it 
could be considered a disease. Our good friend Sigmund Freud grouped it 
with religion as a neuroses. I don't agree with Siggy on religion, but 
to an extent when we are dealing with the mind on issues like this, it 
comes down to something more of normal societal mores versus anomie, in 
sociological lingo. Or it could be an entirely willful decision... I 
don't think that's the case usually.

> IMHO it's not a disease or a decision it's a natural thing. Do any of 
> the guys
> on this list like hairy underarms? hairy chests? hairy legs? big feet? 
> hairy
> faces? muscular bodies (even on a woman)?

	A lot of that has more to do with culture implanted by sociological 
pressures, I think, than biological forces. Read up on what's 
considered normal and attractive around the world -- you'll find it 
varies a lot! Even between here and Western Europe there are some 
differences. Usually, its good to divide things up by biological and 
psychological influence. Culture builds around the biological and 
creates the stuff that ends up in our psyche.

	Then of course, there is personal preferences, which can be willingly 
created or just come naturally from past experiences, etc. In this case 
that we are discussing, I think this is were the difference really 
falls. Past experiences combine to create a set of conscious willful 
decisions and subconscious influences that lead to anomie behavior, 
despite the overwhelming pressure from society against it.

> ewwwwwwwwww it's just gross thinking about that but, not because I 
> "decided"
> it was gross or because God said it was wrong, but because it's just 
> the way
> I am.

	Now, if we argued it was "natural" for you to feel that way, would it 
not indeed be God that did it? But, in this case, like I said, I think 
it has a lot more to do with your experiences from the day you were 
born till now, not anything implanted in you. Given therapy, willful 
effort or any number of other things, it might be possible to reverse 
your view if it was deemed undesirable.

> How many of you in a certain point in your life sat down and thought 
> about
> whether you wanted to be a hetrosexual or a homosexual? heck might as 
> well
> throw in Bi-Sexual. I don't think anyone here ever did that because, 
> they
> knew what they were naturally.

	That goes back to experience, biology and society likely. Biological 
and society pressures all make people lean to heterosexual orientation. 
Experience is what usually seems to tilt someone the other way, if 
they've been abused, ignored, etc.

	-Tim

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