[CS-FSLUG] God Didn't Say That

[Don Parris]

On Fri, 2005-01-07 at 02:25 -0500, Aaron Lehmann wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 06, 2005 at 03:39:56PM -0600, Timothy R. Butler wrote:
> > >
> > >To me and perhaps the larger majority of Christians "The Bible teaches 
> > >us to
> > >love God and neighbor (Matthew 22:36-40), and to allow
> > >the Holy Spirit to develop within us the qualities of love, joy, peace,
> > >patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness and 
> > >self-control
> > >(Galatians 5:22-23).
> > 
> > 	There is a difference between loving someone and trying to make the 
> > case that a given behavior is good, honorable, lovely, etc. (Phil. 4:8) 
> > "'All things are lawful for me,' but not all things are profitable. 
> > 'All things are lawful for me,' but not all things build up" (1 Cor. 
> > 10:23).
> > 
> > >When children, youth and adults embody these values, regardless of 
> > >sexual
> > >orientation, we are growing into the whole people God hopes we will 
> > >become.
> > >You or I may hyperfocus on a person's sexual orientation, but God 
> > >loves the
> > >sum of all of our parts."
> > 
> > 	To an extent I agree. I've gone on the record saying that we ought 
> > 	to love homosexuals, that we ought to reach out to them, etc. BUT, I say 
> > this because we should reach out to all sinners. I'm a sinner as well. 
> > At the same time, WE SHOULD NOT attempt to distort the Bible to argue 
> > that what they are doing is not sin. What we should do, is lovingly 
> > help them show the fruits of the Spirit and escape sin... just like I 
> > hope others do for me.
> 
> But, are we to demand that they be free of their sin before welcoming
> them?  Many homosexuals feel that they are shunned by Christendom, and
> by extension God, because of what they feel they are unable to cope
> with.  Is there some way to say, "At some point this must be worked on,
> but when that point comes, you will realize it is workable."?  After
> all, Christ did not come to save the righteous, but the sinners.  If
> there is a way, what is the proper way to do it?
> 
You raise an interesting point.  There really are two questions:
(1) Is homosexuality a moral wrong, a cultural more, or a genetic fact?
(2) How doe we treat homosexuals, generally (esp. in light of the answer
to #1)?

The answer to #1 is, based on my understanding of Biblical
interpretation, that homosexuality is a moral wrong.  Science has not
proven beyond the shadow of a doubt (at least not to me) that
homosexuality is a genetic trait.  If the Church fathers (Paul, etc) had
seen homosexuality as a cultural issue, they might not have addressed it
at all.  However, the behavior is consistently part of the sin lists in
the N.T.  

Interestingly, the reference to keeping the women quiet in worship was
not in the sin lists.  Thus one is definitely a moral issue, while the
other could be (arguably) taken as cultural.  I'm not trying to open
another discussion, but merely pointing to the difference between moral
& cultural issues, from the standpoint of good biblical interpretation.

Frankly, there are quite a few sincere Christians who still lie, cheat,
and commit other sins.  All of us have to mature in our spiritual
journey - I don't believe change just happens overnight - certainly not
in many of the situations I've experienced.  There could even be
occasions where a redeemed homosexual falls into temptation, thanks to
the old fleshly nature.

I have always struggled with how to address this adequately.  I have
felt that, at times the Church is too stern toward this issue, and yet
ordaining practicing homosexual clergy is _not_ the answer.  You
wouldn't ordain a practicing liar, would you?  Or a practicing murderer?
I can't imagine that many of us would entertain the idea of ordaining a
redeemed murderer today - even though that is quite clearly what Paul
had been as Saul.

Personally speaking, I can accept that redeemed homosexuals will
struggle, especially in the beginning.  It will be up to a loving
congregation to admonish & restore (gently, as suggested by Galatians)
such persons when we discover their failure.  We do need to ensure that
people understand we are not condoning such behavior in any way, shape,
form or fashion.  We need to ensure that people understand that an
unrepentant person has a serious spiritual malady.  However, they also
need to know that they, personally, are accepted, loved (agape, philios
- not eros).

I also think the church has communicated poorly with respect to this
issue.  We've apparently gotten the message across that homosexuality is
sin.  We apparently have failed - regardless of how we, as individuals
may approach it - to communicate the acceptance in forgiveness.  Perhaps
our attitudes express our expectation that a homosexual must demonstrate
immediate change before they will be accepted as Christian.  

In other words, I'm not sure we have communicated very well a balanced
view of homosexuality.

<SNIP>

> 
> Aaron Lehmann
> 

Don