[OFB Cafe] Cafe List

[Derek Broughton]

On July 12, 2008 22:12:23 Chris Olson wrote:
> From: Patrick Shanahan
>
> > Look at all the rfcs that LookOut violates and all the
> > ww3 definitions of html that explorer and web publishing clients from
> > mickey$loft massacre
>
> First of all, let me explain that at one point I was as big of a Microsoft
> basher as you are.  However, in my old age, I consider myself grown up
> enough to not have use terms like "mickey$loft", "m$", etc..  

Well I prefer not to use terms that too obviously refer to Microsoft if I'm 
going to be bashing them, because I don't put it beyond them to search for 
references to their name...

> I prefer to 
> refer to the company as "Microsoft", so as to not appear to be some sort of
> religious idiot.  You won't find me making fun of whatever operating
> environment you use, no matter how much I dislike it (although I used to do
> it a lot).

Then you have grown up...  I left TechTalk because you spent so much time 
bashing Linux it had stopped being any fun.

> Further, I must say I don't care much about the rants related to RFC's and
> WW3 Definitions since the fact of life is that you have standards and you
> have defacto standards.  The old saying is, "how does Bill Gates change a
> light bulb?  He doesn't.  He just declares darkness the new defacto
> standard".

Well, now, that in itself seems to rate comments about the Evil Empire.  
Sorry, the fact that Microsoft does things the way they want, and not the way 
others would like doesn't make them the good guys.

> The complainers need to realize that they can harp on "standards" all they
> want but my banking website still only works with IE because it uses
> ActiveX components.  

Mine doesn't, yours doesn't need to.  If my bank did that, I'd change banks.  
My bank is one of the few places that my voice actually carries enough weight 
that they'd pay attention if I threatened to move my business.  I'm not naive 
enough to believe they'd rewrite a system using ActiveX because I moved, but 
I think there'd at least be some discussion at Head Office about customers 
who were upset about the web banking - and I'd bet they'd turn around and 
provide a way to continue using the old system.

> I remember when I switched to IE7 (from Firefox) Tim told me the world
> would come to and end (in so many words) and my computer would be infected,
> etc..  It didn't, and I to this day have never run an
> anti-virus/anti-malware application of any sort in my Windows Vista
> computer, and I have Windows Defender disabled as well.  

I agree.  IE7 (or _any_ version of IE going back to at least version 3) has 
been no more likely to get your computer infected than any other browser - 
and less than Firefox just a few weeks back.  I don't run antivirus software 
either.  My last virus was over 10 years ago (though I did accidentally run 
one in Wine, once).  If you don't open email attachments from people you 
don't know, you're pretty safe.  You should probably avoid getting other 
people's sticks in your laptop, too, without a condom.

> As it turns out, IE7 is a really nice web browser, and I like it.  

I had it on Vista, liked IE7, hated Vista.  I really should get around to 
downloading it on the XP machines I use, as it's way better than IE6.

> And I no longer have to 
> switch browsers just to use my banking website.  That's called a "defacto
> standard" and it's just as valid as RFC's and WW3 definitions,

No, it's not.  Because it often violates the agreements MS has already 
promised to adhere to.  That makes it a predatory trade practice.  My 
websites always work with IE (except that I've never tested one with IE7, 
yet), Firefox, Safari and Konqueror.  I confess to not caring enough if they 
work with Opera (though I work with frameworks that should) to test.  I 
wouldn't test them with Safari and Konqueror except that my colleague prefers 
the first and I prefer the latter (plus, if a site works with Konqueror it 
will usually work with anything).  Working to standards helps everybody - 
including Microsoft.

> except to those who like to carry the torch and preach from the pulpit.

And to those who borrow somebody's machine when they're on vacation to check 
their bank site, only to discover that it only has firefox installed.  I've 
had it happen when somebody asked if they could check a site from my laptop.  
Of course, I could have popped into the virtualbox XP and let them try it 
from IE, but friends don't let friends do Windows.

> There's a fact of life - when you're the 800 lb gorilla, no matter what the
> situation, you can do pretty much what you want.  

Pushing your weight around never made anybody right.  Windows isn't a totally 
awful system, but MS's business practices are certainly well past the center 
line of the Good-Evil axis.
-- 
derek