[CS-FSLUG] #lycoris chat log

[N. Thompson]

I made a mistake on the time of Joseph Cheek's arrival in the #lycoris channel 
on irc.freenode.net, I hope none of you missed it if you were interested in 
being there.

Anyway I managed to put together an IRC bot to record the chat when I found 
out I was 2 hours early, I didn't have time to debug the bot or make it 
fairly fancy so the output didn't work as well as I had hoped. I did include 
a copy of the chat log the bot put together though, unfortunately one of the 
bugs I missed was that it only recorded the conversation and completely 
missed events such as someone entering or leaving the channel.

Another log (which will have been edited) will be on http://www.lycoris.org, 
it was taken by one of the moderators (a Lycoris employee I'm sure) in the 
list.
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[5:52:52 PM] ntws01: guess I won't have time to fix the bug :-(
[5:53:33 PM] ki11er: Hi Rus
[5:53:33 PM] kryme: Hey there Rus.
[5:53:36 PM] Rus: Hey
[5:53:36 PM] kryme: Long time no see.
[5:53:52 PM] ki11er: How's the crash recovery going???
[5:54:08 PM] Rus: coming along okay
[5:55:25 PM] ki11er: Rus: Private chat???
[5:56:47 PM] Rus: Just PM me
[5:57:00 PM] Rus: And how many of you are in here Killer?
[5:57:02 PM] Rus: LOL
[5:57:07 PM] ki11er: 3
[5:57:17 PM] ntws01: killer, if my bot is a problem just let me know, I don't want to make anyone uncomfortable
[5:57:27 PM] ki11er: My work PC, my server and my laptop...
[5:57:40 PM] D3M0N: yo yo
[5:57:44 PM] Rus: LOL - don't want to miss a word, eh?
[5:57:53 PM] D3M0N: Wow I rushed home quickly
[5:58:01 PM] D3M0N: heya gordonboo2
[5:58:04 PM] ki11er: ntws01: no prob here as long as it behaves itself...
[5:58:34 PM] D3M0N: I see Joe isn't here yet
[5:58:40 PM] ntws01: killer: its not programmed to say anything so that shouldn't be a problem
[5:58:59 PM] D3M0N: Heya shad91
[5:59:03 PM] D3M0N: ntws01, what does it do, exactly?
[5:59:39 PM] ntws01: D3MON: its to record the chat, I wanted to post a copy of the chat to an online lug and to my blog
[5:59:53 PM] D3M0N: ntws01, Ok - no problem
[5:59:56 PM] D3M0N: I'll be logging as well
[6:00:10 PM] Rus: Joseph ought to get here any minute...
[6:00:16 PM] ntws01: D3MON: if there's any problem at all I can shut off the bot, I don't want to make people uncomfortable
[6:00:50 PM] ki11er: ntws01: can you rename it something else???
[6:00:50 PM] Rus: Don't worry - people log stuff all the time
[6:01:05 PM] D3M0N: ntws01, It's fine
[6:01:15 PM] shad91: hello Rus
[6:01:17 PM] ntws01: killer: I wish I could but that was the one bug I didn't have time to fix
[6:01:19 PM] Rus: Name is fine - people have whatever for names
[6:01:21 PM] Rus: Hey Shad
[6:01:25 PM] Rus: glad you could join us
[6:01:31 PM] shad91: me too
[6:01:47 PM] D3M0N: yo Brian
[6:01:52 PM] kryme: Heya Brian.
[6:02:00 PM] Brian: Ahoy
[6:02:00 PM] D3M0N: Wow I really like seeing all these people in here, even if some are duplicates )
[6:02:01 PM] D3M0N: :)
[6:02:14 PM] ki11er:  or triples...  :-P
[6:02:17 PM] kryme: Yeah, it's been a couple months since we had this kind of activity.
[6:02:21 PM] D3M0N: Yes
[6:02:27 PM] D3M0N: And I hope it may stay :)
[6:02:34 PM] Rus: And a few have even left lately
[6:02:39 PM] Rus: ought to be more in here soon
[6:02:49 PM] ntws01: I might stay if I like D/LX 1.4 :-)
[6:03:10 PM] D3M0N: heya Rmacdon
[6:03:12 PM] kryme: Heya Rmacdon.
[6:03:21 PM] gordonboo2: How many can this server handle?
[6:03:29 PM] kryme: Tons.
[6:03:34 PM] claydoh: lots and lots
[6:03:36 PM] ki11er: Rus: have you got the logos sorted yet?
[6:03:37 PM] gordonboo2: Great!
[6:03:40 PM] claydoh: hey folks!
[6:03:47 PM] D3M0N: heya skip2judy
[6:03:49 PM] ki11er: Or still on your list to reover...
[6:03:52 PM] kryme: Howdy claydoh.  Howdy skip2judy.
[6:03:56 PM] skip2judy: i got booted
[6:04:00 PM] Rus: Killer - talk with me about that in PM
[6:04:02 PM] D3M0N: Hey Joe!
[6:04:03 PM] ki11er: Joe's Here...
[6:04:03 PM] kryme: Howdy Joseph.
[6:04:05 PM] Rus: Hi Joseph!
[6:04:06 PM] ki11er: Hi Joe!!!
[6:04:07 PM] jcheek: hi!
[6:04:08 PM] skip2judy: hi joe
[6:04:19 PM] Rus: Killer - can you see the PM from me or are you on webchat?
[6:04:21 PM] ki11er: Now the fun can begin...
[6:04:32 PM] D3M0N: He should still be able to see it on the web chat too, Rus
[6:04:42 PM] jcheek: Thanks all for being here!
[6:04:54 PM] skip2judy: any time
[6:04:57 PM] jcheek: Glad to see you all
[6:05:06 PM] kryme: Joe, I've been waiting since January.  This better be good.
[6:05:12 PM] D3M0N: lol
[6:05:15 PM] ki11er: lol...
[6:05:18 PM] jcheek: I sure hope it is!
[6:05:29 PM] jcheek: If not, we're all wasting our time! 8-)
[6:05:39 PM] Rus: lol
[6:05:39 PM] D3M0N: Crap
[6:05:44 PM] D3M0N: brb
[6:05:59 PM] jcheek: So we are super close to the release of 1.4
[6:06:06 PM] jcheek: and it has some killer new features
[6:06:20 PM] D3M0N: Back
[6:06:46 PM] jcheek: Have you all seen the sneak peeks?
[6:06:51 PM] skip2judy: cool explain them
[6:06:52 PM] skip2judy: yes
[6:06:54 PM] gordonboo2: Yes
[6:07:18 PM] D3M0N: heya egon_spengler, dude
[6:07:21 PM] D3M0N: yo markh-
[6:07:23 PM] kryme: Of course we have.   :P
[6:07:25 PM] Rus: Hey Mark
[6:07:26 PM] jcheek: updates are segregated into 4 general categories
[6:07:42 PM] jcheek: desktop updates, such as KDE 3.2.3 and btx2
[6:08:13 PM] jcheek: geenral software updates, such as AI2 [A-I-squared] and updated programs, libs, etc
[6:08:19 PM] jcheek: new bootup sequence
[6:08:26 PM] jcheek: and better hardware support
[6:08:57 PM] jcheek: There will be more features in a newer edition later
[6:09:12 PM] jcheek: But I just want to chat about what's being finished up now.
[6:09:20 PM] jcheek: any questions before we start?
[6:09:26 PM] jcheek: anything in particular you want more details on?
[6:09:41 PM] egon_spengler: What kernel is 1/4 shipping with?
[6:09:50 PM] shad91: networking linux to pc please
[6:09:58 PM] Rus: That will be in the next sneak peek - kernel version, btw
[6:10:09 PM] Rus: People here will get that early - Joe?
[6:10:33 PM] jcheek: Any others?
[6:11:08 PM] egon_spengler: Will the k3b version you ship support DVD burners?
[6:11:45 PM] dude: HI
[6:11:52 PM] verden01: what version of Crossover Office will be in Powerpack 1.4
[6:11:53 PM] D3M0N: Hey jprince
[6:12:01 PM] jcheek: cool, lots of good questions.
[6:12:07 PM] Zvqra: when it will be release?
[6:12:33 PM] D3M0N: Heya spidna
[6:12:40 PM] jcheek: Ok, the first announcement is on the release date.  The NDA team has been working hard with the development team
[6:12:41 PM] ntws01: will it support many proprietary mutimedia formats?
[6:13:29 PM] jcheek: to ensure we release a great product, but some of the technology isn't finalized.  So release date has been pushed back to August.
[6:13:52 PM] jcheek: It won't be the end of August, but it won't be before LinuxWorld on Aug 2-5.
[6:14:04 PM] jcheek: Everyone still here? 8-)
[6:14:10 PM] D3M0N: I am.
[6:14:13 PM] jprince: me too
[6:14:20 PM] ntws01: yes
[6:14:23 PM] D3M0N: I think people are just listening
[6:14:25 PM] shad91: good to hear jcheek
[6:14:29 PM] verden01: yeah hey its gotta be done right  no use releasing it too soon
[6:14:29 PM] claydoh: Hi jcheek
[6:14:34 PM] jprince: what kernel will we see in 1.4?
[6:14:36 PM] kryme: Joseph, we're just on the edge of our seats.
[6:14:44 PM] Brian: what about WOLK? I remember a developer talking about it a long time ago but then I left
[6:14:46 PM] jcheek: just wanted to make sure i didn't lose anyone with the slippage announcement
[6:15:00 PM] D3M0N: Ahh :)
[6:15:01 PM] verden01: lol
[6:15:24 PM] jcheek: the kernel will be 2.4.26 in Desktop/LX, but we will have a SeedPak available shortly after launch with a 2.6 kernel.
[6:15:36 PM] jprince: a SeedPak?
[6:15:39 PM] verden01: sweet
[6:15:43 PM] jcheek: 2.4.26 still represents the best in stability right now
[6:15:53 PM] jprince: yeah, true
[6:15:55 PM] jcheek: but since 2.6 is cutting-edge, we will make it available for those who want it
[6:16:03 PM] D3M0N: What is a SeedPak?
[6:16:08 PM] Rus: Joseph - please explain the concept behind SeedPaks next for those who are not NDA?
[6:16:23 PM] jcheek: a seedpak is an extra CD for purchase with cutting-edge or other technology on it
[6:16:30 PM] jcheek: Stuff we can't ship in D/LX proper
[6:16:35 PM] jcheek: but want people to get their hands on
[6:16:45 PM] jcheek: It won't be expensive tho.
[6:16:51 PM] ntws01: does the 2.4 default kernel mean that I'll have to use ide-scsi for my CD-RW until the 2.6 update?
[6:16:57 PM] jprince: oh, cool!
[6:17:07 PM] jcheek: yes, ide-scsi will still be used and enabled by default
[6:17:09 PM] D3M0N: skip2judy, you there?
[6:17:37 PM] egon_spengler: Why the statement "can't ship in D/LX?"
[6:18:10 PM] jcheek: Normally we won't ship anything til its fairly stable
[6:18:31 PM] jcheek: Hence kernel 2.4, our long stay with kde2, etc.
[6:18:50 PM] ntws01: will the seedpacks be delivered though the internet is there the option of getting them on CD?
[6:18:53 PM] shad91: good query egon_spengler
[6:18:55 PM] egon_spengler: so, substitute "don't want to" for "can't"
[6:19:08 PM] jcheek: so the seedpaks allow us to ship a stable product and still allow for cutting-edge technology as an addon.
[6:19:17 PM] jcheek: seedpaks will be on CD.
[6:20:02 PM] ki11er: Joe: Can chance of an ISO for the CD's?
[6:20:16 PM] jcheek: killer; you'd have to take that up with sales
[6:20:26 PM] verden01: for those of us who have pre ordered will we be able to add on the seedpack?
[6:20:43 PM] jcheek: i don't see why not, but we haven't announced pricing and availability yet.
[6:21:01 PM] jcheek: we don't have a firm date for them right now.
[6:21:10 PM] verden01: k
[6:21:23 PM] egon_spengler: What size would you put your userbase at?
[6:21:47 PM] Rus: Yes, anyone who has ordered will be able to get SeedPaks.  SeedPaks at the moment will only be available on CD, just like intermediate builds are now, through Lycoris Direct
[6:22:10 PM] jcheek: egon: sorry, i can't give you that information.
[6:22:24 PM] shad91: how much Rus...for this seedpak?
[6:22:47 PM] Rus: Pricing is tentative - no more than $20 on SeedPaks
[6:23:00 PM] shad91: k
[6:23:05 PM] D3M0N: What will be on the SeedPaks?
[6:23:24 PM] D3M0N: I mean... will there just be one thing on it, such as Kernel 2.6?
[6:23:30 PM] Rus: SeedPaks will be sort of an alternative - give users ability to have access to two different versions of the OS.
[6:23:43 PM] D3M0N: Or will a SeedPak have something like Kernel 2.6, maybe a beta KDE 3.3, etc...
[6:23:48 PM] jprince: so it will be a full install, not just rpms like your productivitypak
[6:24:23 PM] jcheek: it will require Desktop/LX to install
[6:24:36 PM] jcheek: And will be RPM's only
[6:25:08 PM] jprince: ok
[6:25:13 PM] jcheek: any other seedpak q's?
[6:25:19 PM] D3M0N: Heya wvmac
[6:25:29 PM] ki11er: Joe: Just so you know...I'm not going to pay $20 for a single CD that only has single kernel RPM on it...
[6:25:31 PM] wvmac: hey
[6:25:42 PM] ki11er: Person feelings...
[6:26:10 PM] jcheek: it will have more than a single kernel RPM on it, an updated kernel is just an example.
[6:26:22 PM] ki11er: OK...Just checking....
[6:26:23 PM] jcheek: and something we've committed to ship.
[6:26:23 PM] D3M0N: Cool :)
[6:26:37 PM] ki11er: :-)
[6:26:50 PM] jprince: so give us a feel for what has changed other than version numbers in 1.4 - i know about kdd3, newer kernel etc, but what else is there for desktop users?
[6:26:50 PM] jcheek: but $20 i think assumes it's a large seedpak, not just a kernel anyway.
[6:27:07 PM] jcheek: ok that's a good q
[6:27:14 PM] jcheek: let's talk about the software
[6:27:21 PM] ntws01: will there be some sort of annual subscription service for seedpacks and updates
[6:27:56 PM] jcheek: ntws01: i believe that already exists
[6:28:20 PM] jprince: not afaik, there used to be but not anymore
[6:28:35 PM] Zvqra: can we get our money back..?
[6:28:54 PM] jcheek: beyond updated software, the next big push is in windows compatibility
[6:29:05 PM] jcheek: Z: i don't see why not, contact sales pls
[6:29:08 PM] Rus: Subscriptions are no longer taken, but those in existence are still valid.
[6:29:53 PM] egon_spengler: Achieved through a bundled Win4Lin or Crossover Office?
[6:29:59 PM] verden01: Joe tell us abut Windows compatability?
[6:30:04 PM] jcheek: we have a bundle with codeweavers for crossover office 3.0
[6:30:25 PM] shad91: how much is that jcheek ?
[6:30:30 PM] jcheek: and have greatly boosted compatibility through our new technology AI2
[6:30:40 PM] jcheek: how much is what?
[6:30:43 PM] jprince: why windows compat? isn't it a better strategy medium/long term to do native apps?
[6:30:58 PM] shad91: Crossover Office
[6:31:07 PM] jcheek: we think it's a great strategy for right now
[6:31:18 PM] wvmac: can you get crossover 3.0 seperate that will act just like the bundled software?
[6:31:34 PM] jcheek: wv: yes, you can purchase COO separately
[6:31:48 PM] jcheek: shad: are you asking for pricing?
[6:31:50 PM] Rus: The bundle is $75, it is available in the store
[6:32:03 PM] shad91: yes sir i was
[6:32:09 PM] Rus: Hey gabbman
[6:32:14 PM] D3M0N: hey gabbman
[6:32:14 PM] claydoh: gabby!!
[6:32:17 PM] jcheek: I'd like to talk a little about AI2
[6:32:25 PM] gabbman: hello everybody
[6:32:29 PM] jprince: ok, go ahead about AI2
[6:32:30 PM] verden01: hi
[6:32:33 PM] shad91: sup
[6:32:37 PM] jprince: hey gabbman
[6:32:42 PM] jcheek: It's new in Desktop/LX 1.4 and is there to guarantee that your apps get their best performance in Desktop/LX
[6:33:09 PM] jcheek: it's also one of the new cool features in 1.4
[6:33:30 PM] jprince: what is it exactly?
[6:33:36 PM] jcheek: we have a teaser web site up at http://www.lycoris.com/products/desktoplx/ai2/
[6:33:57 PM] jcheek: and the white paper and more details will be available shortly after this web chat
[6:34:16 PM] jcheek: in a nutshell, it means that your apps will work better with desktop/lx than with other OS's
[6:34:18 PM] jprince: your website is down
[6:34:23 PM] wvmac: there was a considerable speed increase from update 2 to update 3 so 1.4 should rock with all the new features, right?
[6:34:34 PM] jcheek: uhoh 8-)
[6:34:44 PM] wvmac: i'm on it
[6:34:49 PM] jcheek: 1.4 is responsive i agree.
[6:34:57 PM] ki11er: I can get to the .com site...seems fine...a little slow maybe...
[6:34:58 PM] D3M0N: The website is being worked on.
[6:35:14 PM] jcheek: ok i got to it too
[6:35:22 PM] D3M0N: .org is down
[6:35:31 PM] D3M0N: .com is up and fine
[6:35:38 PM] gabbman: Is it a kernel enhancement, A12 that is
[6:35:48 PM] jcheek: the AI2 whitepaper tells more
[6:36:09 PM] jcheek: but AI2 is not a kernel enhancement, it's a way to tightly integrate apps with Desktop/LX
[6:36:25 PM] jprince: how tight? is this just menu icons etc?
[6:36:28 PM] jcheek: we did a case study on Win4Lin Workstation 5.0 and the results were impressive
[6:36:52 PM] ki11er: Has any other software been tested with AI2?
[6:37:03 PM] jcheek: we were able to integrate win4lin in 6 new areas
[6:37:44 PM] jcheek: win4lin is the first.  ai2 is atomic, which means that new ai2 scripts can be downloaded without requiring Desktop/LX updates
[6:37:56 PM] jcheek: and these can be shipped by the app vendors themselves
[6:38:08 PM] jcheek: so all we need to ship is the infrastructure
[6:38:18 PM] jprince: how do they get users to add the scripts to the client systems?
[6:38:27 PM] jcheek: click on them
[6:38:38 PM] gabbman: are their cross platform implications?
[6:38:38 PM] jcheek: 8-)
[6:38:51 PM] jcheek: gabbman; such as?
[6:38:56 PM] jprince: can the api be ported to another distro, like qt?
[6:38:57 PM] Zvqra: What actually it does..?
[6:39:09 PM] jcheek: qt is not a distro 8-)
[6:39:16 PM] gabbman: instead of crossover, needed to run say widows apps
[6:39:19 PM] jprince: no, like qt is ported to various distros
[6:39:26 PM] jcheek: oh
[6:39:32 PM] D3M0N: heya anselm_
[6:39:36 PM] anselm_: hello
[6:39:46 PM] jcheek: ai2 is available exclusively in Desktop/LX now
[6:39:49 PM] jprince: so when i buy an ai2 product, i can run it on desktop/lx and on say mandrakelinux with ai2
[6:39:53 PM] jprince: right
[6:39:56 PM] jprince: is it opensource?
[6:40:00 PM] garret: PM D3M0N
[6:40:07 PM] jcheek: there are no "ai2 products"
[6:40:12 PM] wvmac: do you have programers lined up to use it?
[6:40:12 PM] jcheek: there are just products
[6:40:17 PM] jcheek: that's the beauty of ai2
[6:40:23 PM] jcheek: no changing of the products are needed
[6:40:32 PM] jprince: gotcha
[6:40:33 PM] D3M0N: garret, ok
[6:40:51 PM] jprince: still, can the backend theoretically be ported to other distros?
[6:41:02 PM] D3M0N: Cool - webchat is up
[6:41:19 PM] jcheek: you could port it to other distros, but how do you integrate My Linux System plugins on mandrake?  it doesn't make sense.
[6:41:26 PM] jprince: true
[6:41:31 PM] D3M0N: Maybe not.
[6:41:43 PM] jcheek: that's what app developers are trying to overcome
[6:42:05 PM] jcheek: you can code to LSB or RH or SuSE, but it's a pain trying to support all these different systems
[6:42:18 PM] jprince: yah
[6:42:23 PM] jcheek: with ai2, you don't have to.  you just ship your standard products and let ai2 do the integration for you.
[6:42:38 PM] jprince: how about binary compatibility probs though?
[6:42:47 PM] jcheek: no changes are made to the binaries themselves
[6:43:18 PM] jprince: yes, but how does it address the issue of binary and library compatibility
[6:43:26 PM] egon_spengler: So, generally, ai2 is more script-fu from you guys?
[6:43:31 PM] jcheek: it doesn't
[6:43:37 PM] jcheek: yes, ai2 is script based
[6:43:41 PM] jprince: ah
[6:43:45 PM] wvmac: so a normal kde app would be optomized?
[6:44:09 PM] jcheek: open source apps can be integrated into desktop/lx at the source level
[6:44:17 PM] jcheek: so kde apps don't really need ai2.
[6:44:24 PM] jcheek: this is for COTS software
[6:44:29 PM] markh-: working????
[6:44:33 PM] jcheek: such as Win4Lin, StarOffice, etc.
[6:44:41 PM] jprince: have you tried this with staroffice yet?
[6:45:28 PM] jcheek: we've studied Win4Lin so far
[6:45:34 PM] D3M0N: hey spidna
[6:45:35 PM] jcheek: but not StarOffice
[6:45:55 PM] jprince: ok
[6:46:01 PM] D3M0N: wb spidna
[6:46:04 PM] jcheek: We were able first to import the Windows menu into the Flower Menu
[6:46:23 PM] jprince: wow!
[6:46:27 PM] wvmac: this is definitely a technology you don't hear about from other "distros".  this could be considered actual innovation, maybe.
[6:46:30 PM] jcheek: so to start Internet Explorer, for instance, you click on flower > Win4Lin > Windows Applications > Internet Explorer
[6:46:45 PM] jcheek: yes, it is exclusive to us
[6:46:47 PM] spidna: Hi D3MON sorry my connection is just bad
[6:46:52 PM] jprince: yeah, this is innovation
[6:47:03 PM] D3M0N: spidna, No, it's not you
[6:47:07 PM] jcheek: although others could possibly try to reverse engineer it
[6:47:08 PM] D3M0N: The .org server is messed u[p
[6:47:16 PM] jprince: it will be especially for games, loki setup isn't cool
[6:47:24 PM] jprince: so it's not open source?
[6:47:37 PM] jcheek: it is open source, but not freely distributable
[6:47:58 PM] jcheek: but since AI2 integrates with Desktop/LX, that's not an issue
[6:48:12 PM] jcheek: app vendors have already done the best they can to provide cross-platform integration
[6:48:35 PM] jcheek: AI2 scripts won't make sense, in general for other OS"s
[6:48:45 PM] jprince: right
[6:48:48 PM] wvmac: i wouldn't share this stuff.
[6:48:58 PM] jprince: me neither 8-)
[6:49:03 PM] D3M0N: lol
[6:49:11 PM] gabbman: jcheek: Will there be an immediate release of updates to IRIS with the release of 1.4 ?
[6:49:19 PM] jcheek: when an app vendor codes for windows or mac, he knows how to integrate it
[6:49:27 PM] jcheek: but no standard for integration exists in linux
[6:49:30 PM] jcheek: gabbman: yes
[6:49:44 PM] jcheek: so this is not a lib or binary issue
[6:49:54 PM] jcheek: most COTS ship with static binaries anyway
[6:50:05 PM] D3M0N: brb
[6:50:08 PM] jprince: right
[6:50:12 PM] jprince: that makes sense
[6:50:18 PM] jcheek: but we told Win4Lin that we already have a Personal Files folder, for instance
[6:50:19 PM] egon_spengler: COTS? not familiar with that acronym
[6:50:28 PM] jcheek: Win4Lin create a mydata/ dir in the home dir
[6:50:31 PM] jprince: Commercial Off The Shelf software iirc
[6:50:36 PM] jcheek: Commercial Off The Shelf
[6:50:37 PM] jcheek: yes
[6:50:51 PM] jcheek: but mydata isn't needed in Desktop/LX
[6:51:02 PM] jcheek: so we tell Win4Lin to use Personal Files
[6:51:13 PM] jcheek: and so both your linux and windows apps now share the same data dirs.
[6:51:34 PM] ki11er_laptop: Joe: What if we don't use Personal Files??? I mount my Windows FAT32 drives for sharing data...
[6:51:44 PM] ki11er_laptop: Can we change where it points???
[6:51:59 PM] jcheek: create a symlink inside of Personal Files to wherever you store your data
[6:52:05 PM] jcheek: that's easy to do
[6:52:11 PM] ki11er_laptop: ok...
[6:52:24 PM] jprince: doesn't w4l have a config app to alter these sorts of settings?
[6:52:26 PM] jcheek: or make Personal Files a symlink itself
[6:52:34 PM] jcheek: yes it does
[6:52:45 PM] jcheek: but do you want to do it by hand, or have it done for you automatically?
[6:52:53 PM] jprince: automatically, of course
[6:53:02 PM] jcheek: kde also has a config app to make your desktop look like ours
[6:53:02 PM] jprince: i was referring to ki11er's q
[6:53:05 PM] shad91: jcheek, isn't COO and Win 4 Lin over kill if you must purchase both seperatly?
[6:53:17 PM] jcheek: it will only take you a few hours
[6:53:19 PM] jcheek: 8-)
[6:53:33 PM] jcheek: shad: i personally would not put coo and win4lin on the same system
[6:53:42 PM] jcheek: if you want coo, buy the coo bundle
[6:53:50 PM] jcheek: if you want win4lin, buy the win4lin bundle
[6:53:53 PM] jcheek: etc.
[6:54:09 PM] shad91: which is less costly?
[6:54:11 PM] jcheek: win4lin doesn't see all cdrom drives
[6:54:17 PM] jcheek: coo is cheaper afaik
[6:54:22 PM] shad91: k
[6:54:27 PM] jcheek: since it's only partial windows compat
[6:54:30 PM] jprince: they do have different uses, w4l needs a windows license, cxoffice has less app support
[6:54:33 PM] ki11er_laptop: Which is better should be the question...
[6:54:43 PM] jprince: yes, which do you recommend
[6:54:46 PM] jcheek: win4lin is much more robust, and gives 99% app compat
[6:54:55 PM] jcheek: because it actually uses windows
[6:55:01 PM] jcheek: whereas COO uses wine
[6:55:02 PM] ntws01: win4lin doesn't have support for windows 2000 or XP if I'm not mistaken
[6:55:09 PM] jcheek: not yet, that's true
[6:55:15 PM] jcheek: but it will, and vmware does already
[6:55:24 PM] jcheek: ai2 can interface with any of these apps
[6:55:28 PM] ki11er_laptop: Damn...I only have Win2K and XP...
[6:55:31 PM] jcheek: so you get to pick your app!
[6:55:52 PM] jcheek: load whichever app you want, ai2 will integrate it
[6:55:56 PM] jprince: are you guys going to kick start this by doing ai2 scripts for common apps like vmware?
[6:56:06 PM] jcheek: ai2 knows, for instance, that i have two cdroms in this machine
[6:56:13 PM] jcheek: but it only configured one, on N:
[6:56:18 PM] gabbman: Will AI2 do all this for you intuatively, or is their a cli learning curve.
[6:56:28 PM] Zvqra: are we talking about windows ... or LINUX here ....????
[6:56:33 PM] jcheek: jprince: we intend to get a large amount of support
[6:56:45 PM] jcheek: Z: Desktop/LX 8-)
[6:56:52 PM] jcheek: no cli, no gui either
[6:56:55 PM] jcheek: it's all automatic
[6:57:02 PM] jcheek: behind the scenes
[6:57:07 PM] jprince: how about for the developers? is there an ide?
[6:57:15 PM] jcheek: not one single click is needed, besides clicking "OK"
[6:57:20 PM] jcheek: yes, there is an API
[6:57:25 PM] gabbman: wow, a built in cli geenie :)
[6:57:38 PM] Zvqra: And what is Desktop/LX...?
[6:57:42 PM] jprince: no, an ide, a point-and-click development environment like installshield
[6:57:50 PM] D3M0N: Lycoris's OS
[6:57:53 PM] jprince: desktoplx is 'lycoris linux'
[6:58:22 PM] jcheek: Jprince: in order to integrate an app with AI2, the developer will need an understanding of shell scripts
[6:58:27 PM] jprince: right
[6:58:31 PM] jcheek: but any IDE that will let you edit text will do the job.
[6:58:37 PM] jprince: ok
[6:59:24 PM] jcheek: importing the windows menu, for instance, took 16 commands
[6:59:29 PM] shad91: i gotta hit the fartsack gang...thanks jcheek ,cya gabbman , my day to tend the garden in the AM...g'night
[6:59:38 PM] D3M0N: G'night shad91
[6:59:43 PM] jcheek: bye!
[6:59:52 PM] jprince: is 16 good or bad?
[6:59:57 PM] jcheek: 16 is very easy
[7:00:00 PM] jprince: ok
[7:00:02 PM] jprince: so how do you plan to get 3rd parties involved in this? dlx is a small market niche right now
[7:00:29 PM] jcheek: writing the MLS plugin took 9 commands
[7:00:49 PM] jcheek: we intend to support key apps ourselves
[7:00:51 PM] D3M0N: hey skip2judy
[7:01:00 PM] D3M0N: If you have access to an external IRC client I recommend using it
[7:01:01 PM] skip2judy: i'm back
[7:01:04 PM] skip2judy: wow
[7:01:18 PM] skip2judy: guess i missed the most hey
[7:01:21 PM] D3M0N: The webchat is pretty messed up at the moment
[7:01:35 PM] jcheek: but intend to hit ISV's up at LW and beyond too
[7:01:37 PM] skip2judy: oh its not only me?
[7:01:43 PM] jcheek: we will give an awesome demo at LW
[7:01:43 PM] D3M0N: Oh no, it's not you
[7:01:46 PM] Rus: As this is  a new method, adoption will take a while.  However, we do have ISVs interested in this type of integration.  Third party developers latch onto cool technology quickly.
[7:02:01 PM] jprince: okay
[7:02:02 PM] jcheek: we already have interested 3rd parties, yes
[7:02:02 PM] D3M0N: heya dude
[7:02:06 PM] D3M0N: Sorry for the connection problems, dude
[7:02:08 PM] jprince: can you name names yet?
[7:02:22 PM] jcheek: but writing the scripts takes only a matter of hours
[7:02:34 PM] jcheek: versus weeks normally
[7:02:39 PM] jprince: right
[7:02:43 PM] jcheek: and because no code changes are needed
[7:02:53 PM] jcheek: we expect there will be quick adoption
[7:03:00 PM] jprince: this gives you a major competitive advantage over xandros and linspire
[7:03:01 PM] jcheek: VB will run on win4lin, yes
[7:03:05 PM] jcheek: yes, it does
[7:03:06 PM] jcheek: 8-)
[7:03:34 PM] jcheek: we intend to show at LW that COTS runs better on Desktop/LX than any other software
[7:03:38 PM] ki11er_laptop: Interesting thought...running a full visual studio in Win4Lin...hmmmm...
[7:03:42 PM] jcheek: other OS, rather
[7:03:47 PM] D3M0N: lol ki11er
[7:03:58 PM] D3M0N: Sounds really cool, Joe :)
[7:04:16 PM] jcheek: we can do it with COO, Win4Lin, VMWare , Cinega, StarOffice, you name it.
[7:04:30 PM] jcheek: well.. enough about AI2
[7:04:38 PM] jprince: how about integrated delivery, does dlx 1.4 have a click-n-buy program for iris yet?
[7:04:48 PM] jcheek: j: very soon
[7:04:55 PM] jprince: right
[7:05:09 PM] jcheek: COO is all ready to go
[7:05:17 PM] jcheek: there are a few more changes we need to make
[7:05:26 PM] jcheek: and then we can do that
[7:05:34 PM] gabbman: When scripts are done, to make certain things happen, will these be available, via say IRIS or some other way to make them available to DL/X users ?
[7:06:01 PM] jprince: right
[7:06:05 PM] jcheek: they can be posted on any web site [ours or the vendors], shipped on their CDs with the product, or added to the update wizard
[7:06:14 PM] kryme|home_: Is IRIS going to save our PIDs in relation to the purchased software, in the event of a reinstall?  I wouldn't want to make a repurchase.
[7:06:19 PM] ki11er_laptop: or all of the above...
[7:06:27 PM] jcheek: it will be a single .ai2 file you click on to load
[7:06:49 PM] gabbman: good stuff
[7:07:10 PM] jcheek: kryme: iris payware will allow for you to save those apps for safekeeping.
[7:08:00 PM] jcheek: other news: we have great new eye candy in 1.4
[7:08:13 PM] jcheek: along with gorgeous background images
[7:08:18 PM] jcheek: and icons
[7:08:31 PM] jcheek: and a new bootsplash process
[7:08:36 PM] jprince: nice! did you manage to update koffice? 1.1 was very old
[7:08:42 PM] jcheek: we're at 1.3.2 now
[7:08:51 PM] jprince: cool
[7:09:00 PM] gabbman: not much has been said publicly about btX2, will that also be demo'd at LW?
[7:09:13 PM] jcheek: the bootup process is faster since we've managed to get some items to go into the background
[7:09:39 PM] jcheek: gabbman: we will demo btx2 shortly!  we have had some integration issues
[7:10:00 PM] jcheek: but bitstream is aware of them and will have them fixed shortly
[7:10:13 PM] gabbman: great
[7:10:18 PM] jcheek: if nothing else, i can bring my laptop there and you can see it on my laptop 8-)
[7:10:28 PM] gabbman: :)
[7:10:42 PM] gabbman: send me the ticket :-)
[7:10:42 PM] jcheek: old releases of Desktop/LX had old libs, etc.
[7:10:52 PM] jcheek: almost all have been updated [with a few exceptions]
[7:10:59 PM] jcheek: 8-)
[7:11:13 PM] ki11er_laptop: thos exceptions being?
[7:11:16 PM] ntws01: not gtk I hope, I don't like how the button ordering has been reversed in the latest versions
[7:11:49 PM] jcheek: killer: still using glibc 2.2.5, kernel 2.4, and gcc 2.95
[7:12:05 PM] jcheek: gtk has been updated, but we have gtk1 as well for those apps
[7:12:15 PM] jcheek: but gimp2, etc. required gtk2
[7:12:29 PM] claydoh: when can we see a change in that (gcc and glibc)?
[7:12:34 PM] ntws01: there is a patch available to fix the button ordering I think
[7:12:38 PM] jcheek: clay: seedpak 8-)
[7:12:45 PM] Rus: =)
[7:12:54 PM] claydoh: :0)
[7:13:25 PM] jcheek: the first seedpak will ship a few weeks afterward
[7:13:28 PM] jprince: has binary compatibility from older dlx releases been preserved?
[7:13:44 PM] jcheek: yes, we have kept old libs
[7:13:49 PM] jcheek: in their new packages
[7:13:55 PM] jcheek: for instance libpng
[7:14:10 PM] jcheek: Update 3's libpng is binary imcompatible with 1.4's
[7:14:18 PM] jcheek: so we ship both
[7:14:25 PM] jcheek: in 1.4
[7:14:45 PM] jcheek: we still ship kde2 libs
[7:14:47 PM] jcheek: for kde2 apps
[7:14:55 PM] jcheek: even though we have updated all of ours for kde3
[7:15:03 PM] jcheek: just in case you have a stray kde2 app laying about 8-)
[7:15:44 PM] jprince: cool
[7:15:47 PM] ki11er_laptop: Joe: are we going to see system monitoring tools built in??
[7:16:11 PM] gabbman: once IRIS is fully updated their shouldn't be many stray kde2 apps laying around
[7:16:14 PM] jcheek: anything significant will go into Iris
[7:16:27 PM] jcheek: gkrellm, for instance
[7:16:50 PM] ki11er_laptop: So gkrellm will be updated to the new KDE 3.2 version?
[7:17:06 PM] jprince: how ready will iris be when 1.4 is released? are we going to have to wait a while for the new apps?
[7:17:07 PM] jcheek: all iris apps will be updated to their latest versions
[7:17:09 PM] D3M0N: gkrellm is a gtk app
[7:17:23 PM] jcheek: iris will be updated the same day
[7:17:38 PM] jcheek: we will have a few straggling apps that we need to remove for a few days until they are ready
[7:17:40 PM] ntws01: will superkaramba be available?
[7:17:42 PM] jprince: ok
[7:17:50 PM] jcheek: but they will be reinserted when they're done
[7:17:57 PM] jcheek: nt: don't know that one...
[7:18:04 PM] jcheek: we could add it to the wishlist...
[7:18:22 PM] ntws01: its integrates better into KDE then gkreallm
[7:18:43 PM] jcheek: ok, send me a link
[7:18:49 PM] jcheek: i'll add it to the wishlist for iris
[7:18:52 PM] D3M0N: Super Karamba isn't just for that
[7:18:53 PM] ntws01: http://netdragon.sourceforge.net/
[7:18:57 PM] claydoh: superkakramba eye candy and system monitors and other niftry things
[7:19:06 PM] D3M0N: yah
[7:19:20 PM] D3M0N: It's cool :)
[7:19:33 PM] Rus: Pelly says hi, everyone
[7:19:41 PM] D3M0N: Hey Pelly
[7:19:43 PM] Rus: He's away and wishes he could be here
[7:20:16 PM] jcheek: cool
[7:20:29 PM] jprince: will mls and the networkbrowser be integrated with the open/save dialogs?
[7:20:41 PM] jcheek: no, not yet
[7:20:44 PM] jprince: ok
[7:20:46 PM] ki11er: superkakramba http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=21351
[7:20:50 PM] D3M0N: Heya wvmac
[7:20:55 PM] jprince: when is that due?
[7:20:58 PM] jcheek: but mls mounts are hard mounts, so you can navigate to them
[7:21:16 PM] D3M0N: I like that idea :)
[7:21:19 PM] jcheek: jp: probably not until beryl
[7:21:28 PM] jprince: ok
[7:21:30 PM] jcheek: err. nethood mounts are hard mounts too
[7:21:50 PM] jcheek: you need to navigate to /net/joseph/SERVER/SHARE
[7:21:53 PM] jcheek: or something similar
[7:22:16 PM] jprince: yes, i was asking about whether there will be buttons in the open/save dialogs for "my linux system" and "network neigbourhood" - answer, no
[7:23:02 PM] jcheek: the install automaticaly creates smbpasswd entries for each user
[7:23:24 PM] jcheek: so you can easily connect to your shares
[7:23:26 PM] jprince: nice!
[7:23:34 PM] jprince: does the add user wizard do that too?
[7:23:49 PM] jcheek: and nethood browses as your user, do you can see your hidden shares too
[7:23:58 PM] jcheek: add user wizard doesn't... yet 8-)
[7:24:19 PM] gabbman: good point jason
[7:24:26 PM] D3M0N: The Network Wizard is nice - I just figured how to do it recently :P
[7:24:30 PM] D3M0N: Use it that is
[7:24:44 PM] jcheek: you can eject cd's while you have the autorun windows open
[7:24:53 PM] jprince: Network Wizard?
[7:24:54 PM] jcheek: no more waiting for the konq window to close
[7:25:02 PM] D3M0N: Oh wow
[7:25:05 PM] D3M0N: I didn't even know that :P
[7:25:08 PM] D3M0N: Ahh, sorry
[7:25:10 PM] D3M0N: Network  Browser
[7:25:12 PM] D3M0N: :P
[7:25:28 PM] jprince: ok
[7:25:36 PM] jcheek: hmm, anything i left out?
[7:25:47 PM] jprince: is there any chance of a price drop back to $30
[7:25:56 PM] jprince: to compete with suse personal
[7:25:58 PM] jcheek: $10 for former owners 8-)
[7:26:11 PM] jprince: ok
[7:26:20 PM] jcheek: or $15 for deluxe i think
[7:26:32 PM] jcheek: that's for the full CD but no manual or support
[7:26:43 PM] jcheek: for owners of Update 3 and earlier
[7:26:58 PM] jprince: that's lycoris direct, right? i'm talking about dropping the boxed price back to $30 to compete with boxed suse pro
[7:27:01 PM] jprince: suse per, rather
[7:27:02 PM] jcheek: we might have another competitive upgrade special, e-mail sales about it
[7:27:09 PM] jprince: ok
[7:27:12 PM] kryme|home_: C'mon Joe.  the rest of us are here for support.  :P
[7:27:20 PM] ki11er_laptop: lol...
[7:27:21 PM] D3M0N: Heh
[7:27:22 PM] jcheek: boxed prices will likely never go down
[7:27:27 PM] jprince: ok
[7:27:47 PM] jcheek: we should have a "Kryme supported edition"?
[7:27:49 PM] jcheek: 8-)
[7:27:56 PM] ki11er_laptop: hahaha...
[7:28:07 PM] jcheek: $30 for a boxed set if you e-mail kryme with your problems 8-)
[7:28:11 PM] D3M0N: Yah... he's also supposed to have a Rule Book for the IRC channel too...
[7:28:18 PM] jprince: lol
[7:28:28 PM] gabbman: powerpak will be a good draw for the MS converts
[7:28:28 PM] D3M0N: lol
[7:28:35 PM] kryme|home_: D3M0N, my publisher has some issues about some of the chapters.  It's on its way!
[7:28:47 PM] D3M0N: Mhmm... sure... you said that last time
[7:28:48 PM] jprince: [off-topic] are you planning to add more extras to productivitypak to boost its value? $50 is hefty when its not much more than oo.o + icons + kpilot
[7:28:58 PM] jcheek: jprince: yes
[7:29:02 PM] jcheek: more in store for PPak
[7:29:03 PM] jprince: dlx 1.4 is crammed with extras
[7:29:08 PM] jprince: any hints?
[7:29:16 PM] jcheek: but almost all resources are poured into D/LX right now
[7:29:18 PM] D3M0N: Powerpak is cheaper thant Xandros's deluxe too :)
[7:29:24 PM] jprince: fair enough
[7:29:32 PM] jprince: D3M0N: yes, but no openoffice
[7:29:40 PM] D3M0N: True
[7:29:42 PM] ntws01: D3M0N, should have told me that before I ordered a copy of Xandros Desktop 2 Deluxe :-(
[7:29:57 PM] D3M0N: But straight OO sucks anyway :)
[7:29:59 PM] ntws01: that was a while ago though, I didn't use it for more then a week
[7:30:04 PM] jcheek: xandros only comes with COO 2 as well
[7:30:04 PM] D3M0N: That sucks, ntws01
[7:30:14 PM] D3M0N: yes and their new upgrade costs you $$
[7:30:15 PM] jprince: haha, xandros charge a fortune for upgrades as well
[7:30:16 PM] D3M0N: 2.5
[7:30:28 PM] ntws01: no it was 2.0
[7:30:35 PM] jprince: jcheek: what is the upgrade support policy on bundled COO?
[7:30:36 PM] jcheek: we ship COO 3, and codeweavers has said they won't support xandros until they pay them what they owe them
[7:30:36 PM] D3M0N: I'm talking about the upgrade they just released
[7:30:46 PM] ntws01: I've still got it, the box is a little beat up but the rest of it is in near perfect condition
[7:30:48 PM] D3M0N: haha
[7:31:03 PM] jcheek: COO support i believe will be done directly from codeweavers
[7:31:14 PM] ki11er_laptop: Joe: will there be a community beta release of 1.4?
[7:31:16 PM] jcheek: rus has the contract, he's the one to ask
[7:31:18 PM] D3M0N: upgrade support
[7:31:24 PM] jprince: so they are supporting it? standard 6 month upgrade policy?
[7:31:25 PM] D3M0N: I don't think he meant support
[7:31:27 PM] D3M0N: But upgrading
[7:31:30 PM] jprince: both
[7:31:31 PM] jcheek: oh
[7:31:43 PM] jcheek: rus would know better than i, he negotiated the contract
[7:31:44 PM] verden01: xandros has just announced the release of xandros 2.5 with coo 3 but i bet its a lot more expensive than powerpak 1.4
[7:31:53 PM] ntws01: If I send over my copy of Xandros 2.0 deluxe do I get a discount ;-)
[7:32:02 PM] D3M0N: lol
[7:32:10 PM] ntws01: I'll settle for a $5 discount since XOS isn't that good :-)
[7:32:14 PM] jcheek: nt: a competitive upgrade offer, that's a great idea!
[7:32:19 PM] D3M0N: Indeed :P
[7:32:21 PM] jprince: yes, i agree
[7:32:25 PM] D3M0N: I do too
[7:32:29 PM] jcheek: everyone e-mail rus and ask for a competitive upgrade offer on boxed sets for 1.4
[7:32:31 PM] D3M0N: Although will they like it, probably not :P
[7:32:41 PM] D3M0N: Of just XOS?
[7:32:50 PM] jcheek: we could allow for other OS's too
[7:32:50 PM] D3M0N: Or like Lindows (oops! Linspire)
[7:32:53 PM] D3M0N: SUSE
[7:32:56 PM] gabbman: methinks Rus talked of that
[7:32:57 PM] D3M0N: Etc...
[7:33:08 PM] jcheek: well, I need to go.  Two more questions...
[7:33:09 PM] jprince: sounds cool!
[7:33:11 PM] jprince: ok
[7:33:16 PM] ki11er_laptop: Joe: will there be a community beta release of 1.4?
[7:33:39 PM] jcheek: killer: no, probably not.  we've got 40+ beta testers on it, and we're pressed for time already
[7:33:45 PM] jprince: are there any plans to move into the soho server market?
[7:33:55 PM] jprince: after 1.4 obviously
[7:33:58 PM] jcheek: jprince: watch this space
[7:34:00 PM] jcheek: 8-)
[7:34:03 PM] jprince: oooo
[7:34:43 PM] jcheek: ok, thanks for the chat everyone!  watch for more press releases, and a great 1.4 product soon!
[7:34:47 PM] gabbman: Thanks Joe, for the insight
[7:34:49 PM] D3M0N: Great!
[7:34:52 PM] D3M0N: Thanks for the info
[7:34:53 PM] jprince: thanks jcheek!
[7:34:53 PM] wvmac: thanks
[7:34:58 PM] ntws01: thanks
[7:34:59 PM] ki11er_laptop: Bye Joe...
[7:35:00 PM] D3M0N: I will be editting this and posting this on .org
[7:35:01 PM] claydoh: thanks jcheek
[7:35:14 PM] D3M0N: Good behavior too, everyone ;)
[7:35:27 PM] D3M0N: Heya egon_spengler
[7:35:29 PM] gabbman: ya gotta fix .org first
[7:35:33 PM] verden01: whatch it D3M0Nor you'll get kicked
[7:35:35 PM] D3M0N: lol
[7:35:37 PM] verden01: lol
[7:35:39 PM] D3M0N: Good point, gabbman :P
[7:35:48 PM] D3M0N: The CGI IRC client will be going soon
[7:36:02 PM] D3M0N: It will probably be replaced by a java one
[7:36:12 PM] jprince: cool
[7:36:14 PM] gabbman: ya, the java one works well on desktopos