[CS-FSLUG] Long Copper Run and Fiber Media Converters

Fri Sep 28 00:21:01 CDT 2012

I'm not sure what to tell you, I don't know why the surge protectors
don't work.  If you're worried about lightning, another method I've
used is to do a fiber media converter, then back to cat5 on either
end.  The fiber in between the media converters isolates any surges
from inflicting damage to what it's connected to (we usually put the
fiber in a clear plexiglass tube of about 3 ft in length and the media
converters themselves outside of this at either end to ensure there's
no arching).  Of course, this may be a more expensive option, and not
cost-effective.  The only other one would be to make the equipment on
either side of your long cat5 run replaceable (for example, two 5-port
hubs, one on each side with long cat5 runs away from your equipment
that won't cause a problem if they burn out.

On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 7:27 PM, Timothy Butler <tbutler at ofb.biz> wrote:
> OK, so the APC surge protectors are now hooked up to good, copper grounding wires on both ends. And I'm still getting a lot of timeouts when I ping a router that is at the other end of the long run. Here's a sample:
>
> -----
> 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=78 ttl=150 time=0.616 ms
> 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=79 ttl=150 time=0.610 ms
> 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=80 ttl=150 time=0.564 ms
> Request timeout for icmp_seq 81
> 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=82 ttl=150 time=0.562 ms
> Request timeout for icmp_seq 83
> 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=84 ttl=150 time=0.547 ms
> Request timeout for icmp_seq 85
> 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=86 ttl=150 time=0.544 ms
> Request timeout for icmp_seq 87
> Request timeout for icmp_seq 88
> Request timeout for icmp_seq 89
> Request timeout for icmp_seq 90
> 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=91 ttl=150 time=0.509 ms
> Request timeout for icmp_seq 92
> 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=93 ttl=150 time=0.552 ms
> Request timeout for icmp_seq 94
> 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=95 ttl=150 time=0.516 ms
> 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=96 ttl=150 time=0.619 ms
> 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=97 ttl=150 time=0.595 ms
> Request timeout for icmp_seq 98
> 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=99 ttl=150 time=0.502 ms
> 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=100 ttl=150 time=0.592 ms
> Request timeout for icmp_seq 101
> 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=102 ttl=150 time=0.522 ms
> 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=103 ttl=150 time=0.569 ms
> 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=104 ttl=150 time=0.586 ms
> Request timeout for icmp_seq 105
> 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=106 ttl=150 time=0.519 ms
> 64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=107 ttl=150 time=0.524 ms
> Request timeout for icmp_seq 108
> ---
>
> Suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
> Tim
>
>
> On Sep 24, 2012, at 4:45 PM, Timothy Butler <tbutler at ofb.biz> wrote:
>
>> This shows my ignorance on all things relating to grounding. While I was planning to ground them, I hadn't done so yet, since I had proven unsuccessful in getting them to work. Could that be the issue?
>>
>> As to what I am grounding them to, the folks who put the conduits in have a copper grounding wire near each conduit access for grounding purposes. I believe it runs outside and into the ground.
>>
>> What sort of surge protection do you use for your runs, by the way? I went with the APC's since they were well rated, relatively affordable ($20/each x 4 for each end of the two runs)  and I've had good success with APC over the years.
>>
>> Thanks for the advice!
>>
>> Blessings,
>> Tim
>>
>> On Sep 24, 2012, at 3:55 PM, Peter J. Vasquez Sr. <pjvasquez at baeyogin.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Pulling the fiber is definitely a no go.
>>>
>>> As for the APC PNET1GB, are you sure the grounding has been done
>>> properly?  What are you grounding to?  You should not be seeing any
>>> packet loss.  If so, what are you using to test the point to point
>>> link?
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 3:38 PM, Timothy Butler <tbutler at ofb.biz> wrote:
>>>> Thanks, Josiah and Peter. Here are a few more questions:
>>>>
>>>>> I concur with Josiah.  Fiber is a precise art, especially in the
>>>>> polishing of the ends.  My company has run many thousands of feet
>>>>> across our area, and even with the thick/tough stuff, we have had
>>>>> issues in some areas.  Also, unlike cat5/cat6 where you can use a pull
>>>>> string to get it through, you will need special equipment that 'blows'
>>>>> the fiber with a lot of force through the conduit to come out in the
>>>>> other side without breaking or kinking it (this only works if there is
>>>>> sufficient room, usually when the conduit is empty).
>>>>
>>>>      Hmm... that might a problem. So, my idea of pulling it through the empty conduit is a no go, then, it sounds like?
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> GigE over cat5/cat6 is the way to go.  If you're able to dig another
>>>>> trench for the conduit and then use PVC to get it between the
>>>>> buildings, that would be the best option if you can't use the existing
>>>>> one.  I did this for my church a couple of months ago between
>>>>> buildings (about 200ft), and it was really worth it to get several
>>>>> cat6 lines in at once that we can expand to use in the future.  It's a
>>>>> lot of work, but if you can do it, it really is the best way.  Let me
>>>>> know if you need any additional information.  Thanks.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      Well, I have a brand new Cat 6 cable in an empty conduit. It works now that I took back the TRENDnet switches for Netgear ones. I can now achieve a Gig-E link (though I haven't tested the actual speed yet), but when I put the surge protectors on, packet loss gets really severe. So, I've been... stumped... on how to proceed. As I mentioned, I am using APC PNET1GB surge protectors for the ethernet. Perhaps there is something better I should be using? I want to make sure I don't accidentally blow out the network due to a surge.
>>>>
>>>>      Maybe I need more expensive copper switches to get the job done?
>>>>
>>>>      Thanks!
>>>>
>>>>      Tim
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