[CS-FSLUG] RFC: Change of Statement of Faith

[Don Parris]

On 9/7/05, Nathan T. <celerate at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 9/6/05, Fred A. Miller <fmiller at lightlink.com> wrote:
> > On Monday 05 September 2005 3:45 am, Nathan T. wrote:
> > 
> > [snip]
> > 
> > > I for one am happy not being baptised, circumcised, slain in the spirit,
> > > speaking in tongues, or any of that other stuff. I won't say it's wrong 
> > > since that's not my place, but personally I think most of that today is
> > > wrongfully interpreted and has become superstition.
> > 
> > Maybe not "superstition," but there is MUCH in the Charismatic movement
> that 
> > is suspect, at best, IMHO.
> > 
> > Fred
> 
>  In all fairness I might have been a little one sided, but from what I've
> seen all this stuff isn't so much about God any more as it is about
> tradition or simply about being one of the guy's, and in many cases it just
> gets creepy. I've been a church before where people thought they were
> speaking in tongues, for the most part it was constant repetitive
> incomprehensible babble or other unusual sounds, it was creepy and very
> un-Christian if you ask me. Another thing that bothers me, while Baptism is
> something we probably should do, is all the pressure and people's desires to
> make it a public scene. I'm way too shy to be baptised in public right now,
> but the pastor at the church I'm currently at has dodged to bullet every
> time I asked him if a private baptism was possible. As far as being slain in
> the spirit goes, I've seen that one abused far too much; It may have
> happened in the bibile, but from what I've seen at the same church where I
> saw people who thought they could speak in tongues, I would question whether
> those people were really slain in the spirit, or whether they simply forgot
> to have breakfast before comming to church.
>  
>  Anyway, that one church I'm remembering this stuff from was very wierd, and
> I'm old enough now to decide which churches I'll attend for myself.
>  
> _______________________________________________

Again, Be sure you understand the difference between the miraculous
signs and the sacraments.  There are two things that Jesus commanded
of every Christian: Baptism and Communion.

The gifts of the Spirit are not commanded, but granted according to
God's will.  I believe it is possible to have the gift of tongues in
the modern era.  I also believe that many churches where this is
practiced abuse the gift, and many believers may do so as well.  I
have never received the gift, despite my earnest prayer for it.  No
Christian (or person of other faith) can ever force me to receive a
gift that I obviously was not intended to receive.

However, I have been baptized, and regularly partake of communion with
my fellow believers.  I do not see baptism (or communion) as optional,
though it certainly is not required for salvation.  Baptism is not a
spiritual gift.  It is a public affirmation of faith.  There's nothing
wrong with being shy.  However, don't let that stop you from being
obedient to the Great Commission:

    Mt 28:19; Mk 16:15-16; Ac 2:38; 22:16

We are to make disciples, baptize them, then teach them how to make
more disciples.  That implies the necessity of the new believer being
baptized.  The communion passage can be found in the texts leading up
to the Passion.  In fact, many churches don't allow the unbaptized
believers to partake of communion at all, or at least frown on the
practice.

By way of contrast, Jesus stated in the Mark passage that some signs
would follow the believers, but does not specifically command
believers to practice every sign.  If that were the case, we would all
be able to add a dash of rat poison to our food without being harmed. 
All of us Christians could probably keep a few rattlesnakes around the
house to keep out the heathen.  BTW, I've never tried rat poison, and
don't really recommend that you try that at home, boys and girls. ;-) 
We are to use whatever gifts God chooses to bestow upon us to glorify
Him.  However, there is no command that we receive any specific gift.

Nathan, I'm not saying that you should go join a Charismatic or
Pentacostal church.  I am saying that there is a clear distinction
between the sacraments and the spiritual gifts.  The sacraments are
something that every Christian should practice.  Every Christian
should practice whatever gift(s) they may have received (whether
'miraculous' or not).

I would not allow my shyness to limit my participation in the Body of
Christ to 'just the bare essentials' to get saved.  If you're saved,
be willing to affirm/confess it publicly.  I hope you recognize the
spirit in which I write.  I want you to realize that Baptism isn't
just some goofey 'hocus pocus' that Christians upheld merely for the
sake of tradition.

I'm certain this will start further debate, but that's fine.  I'm
enjoying the edification we are all receiving from this discussion.
:-)

Blessings,
Don
-- 
DC Parris GNU Evangelist
http://matheteuo.org/
gnumathetes at gmail.com
"Hey man, whatever pickles your list!"