[CS-FSLUG] PD: THE EU VOTE....GOOD article.

[Eduardo Sanchez]

On Saturday 04 June 2005 10:41, Raphaël Pinson wrote:
>
> Although Turkey is composed of a huge population of Muslim, I find it
> the funniest thing to say things like "Turkey doesn't have Christian
> roots as we do". Remind me where were the first Christian communities
> founded? Ephesia, Phillipa, Corinthia ... where is this now ? Did
> Paul ever evangelise France or the Netherlands (France was a Roman
> province too at the time, since 52 BC). Most politicians who blame
> Turkey for not being Christian are not Christian themselves, just
> like GWB who talks so more about Christianity is not a Christian imo.
> Often in history non-christians try to *control* Christians by making
> them think they are focused on their interests...

Interesting commentary that of yours, Raphaël, and certainly gets us a 
different perspective than that of the news agencies (not necessarily 
those of the US only; here in Paraguay the same stuff was parroted over 
and over).

About Turkey, I heard that the big issue is not that of religion; Turkey 
is a very secular country after all. The big issue, I think, is 
Turkey's poor human rights and freedoms record, which runs counter to 
Europe's glorious tradition in that regard. Right now, Turks get 
furious when the Orthodox Patriarch of Constantinople is called 
"Ecumenical Patriarch", and this fellow still is unable to re-open a 
theological seminary in his homeland.

>
> > And then, there is the reality of ethnic ghettos, the
> > well-known case of the  assassination of a prominent politician in
> > Holland by a radical Islamic Muslim, a general increase in the
> > crime rates, a failure of the immigrants to inter-marry and adopt
> > the culture of their new environment, and the intense competition
> > for jobs.
>
> Ghetto is a term that fits the american reality, not the european
> one. We don't have ghettos, as in black people somewhere, arabic
> elsewhere, latinos in a third place, etc. We have rich and poor
> places for sure, but it's not as harsh a separation as in the US.
> Intense competition for jobs ... LOL ... France had muslims come here
> years ago to help us for the war, when some muslim countries were
> still part of our country. They fought in our army, and now we would
> consider they steal our jobs? One has to be really bad to think this
> way, when these people didn't ask to come.
>

Perhaps you don't know one, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. You 
can get into those even in Berlin and Madrid (I know that firsthand, I 
have some in-laws living as immigrants in some of these).

>
> Is this really a question ? Honestly the american "democracy" is so
> shocking for us that we don't wonder anymore if Europe is more
> democratic than the US...
>

Come on, Raphaël, you're alluding to differences both political and 
cultural. Don't accuse one government of being more "democratic" than 
the other. Different shades of gray ...

>
> Sorry for all this, but I couldn't let such a false info go on...
>

No problem; only that it was one opinion against another, not "a false 
info" against a true one... and I respect a lot what you have to say.

Blessings,


Eduardo

-- 
Prof. Eduardo Sanchez
Asuncion, Paraguay, South America
--------------------------------------------------------------
MINNIE AND WINNIE

Minnie and Winnie  Sleep little ladies!
  Slept in a shell,    Wake not soon!
Sleep, little ladies!  Echo on echo
  And they slept well.    Dies to the moon.

Pink was the shell within, Two bright stars
  Silver without;    Peep'd into the shell,
Sounds of the great sea  What are they dreaming of?
  wandered about.    Who can tell?

  Started a green linnet
		  Out of the croft;
		Wake, little ladies,
		  The sun is aloft!

		--Alfred, Lord Tennyson

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