[CS-FSLUG] Just got hit with a cluestick

[Tim Young]

Norbert Bollow wrote:

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> Tim Young <Tim.Young at LightSys.org> wrote:
>
> > Ok, you got me curious.  I do a lot with free software (and even
> > help develop some) but I know I am not the guy you are looking for.
> > But I am quite curious about your thoughts for a Free Software
> > Business.
>
> Actually I think what I need right now is people who will listen to
> my ideas, share their thoughts, and pray with me.  If you are willing
> to "walk with me for a stretch of road on my journey", simply as a
> brother who has no interest in ever getting directly involved in my
> business, that'll be of immense value to me!

I can do that.  I will warn you that my business expertise is a little
off-kilter from the rest of the world.  My personal life has been one where I
tend to live a free, open-source life.  For the past 5 years I have lived the
life of a missionary, but I am only just now starting to raise support.  When I
started, I owned a minivan and a laptop, and simply started driving from one
organization to another, providing free computer consulting to missions.  I had
no income, I did not charge for what I did, and I stated that I would cover all
my own costs in travel between locations if they could give me a couch to sleep
on and breakfast.  Oh.  And did I say that I had just over $500 in the bank
when I started?  Now I have worked with over 60 organizations in 9 countries,
and we are still going strong.

One of my biggest strengths is one of brainstorming and troubleshooting.  I do
a fair bit of that, and I am pretty good at it.  But I can come up with some
very outlandish brainstorms.  ;)

The other thing that I will warn you about is that my entire outlook on life is
immersed in missions.  You will find that most of my discussions can be very
helpful, questioning, and good.  But some of it will be focused on missions,
just because that is who I am.  I will not be offended at all when you ignore a
statement of mine, say "that is ministry stuff", or tell me I need a reality
check.  I know that God has not called everyone to be a missionary
through-and-through as I am; there need to be senders, pastors, teachers, and
the rest of the body of Christ.  Just be ware that my thoughts will
occasionally be laced with missions thinking, and you and I will probably get
along fine.  :)

So all that said, I would be happy to walk a bit down the road with you.

>
> > Do you already have a package you are thinking of starting, or will
> > you snag an existing package and work with that?
>
> My personal interests which I will like to bring into this business
> are:
>
> (1) Technical applications (in Free Software) of the study of moral
>     economics.  With "moral economics" I mean the study of how the
>     economy works from the perspective of someone who believes that
>     greed is a very real temptation, but giving in to greed is morally
>     wrong.  Potential technical applications of such theories include
>     business directories as well as solutions to the spam problem.

This is certainly an interesting study.  I liked the fact that in your
freestrategy.info site you talk about the various corporate setups you can
have.  A lot of people have told me that a 501(C)3 is the only way to go.  By
assuming that the corporation can function without giving into greed, you could
be a non non-profit, and exist within the realm of morality.  The folks who say
that you MUST be a 501(c)3 usually assume that being legally (through federal
law) bound to not falling prey to greed will keep you from being greedy.  ;)

>
> (2) The SXDF / QQP / QRPC suite of webservice protocols which I'm
>     designing as better replacements for the XML / HTTP / SOAP suite
>     of protocols.  This is potentially useful for every kind of task
>     which involves data transfer over a network.  If someone here is
>     interested in the details, they can be found e.g. at:
>     http://www.rfc-editor.org/internet-drafts/draft-bollow-sxdf-00.txt
>     http://www.rfc-editor.org/internet-drafts/draft-bollow-qqp-00.txt
>     http://www.rfc-editor.org/internet-drafts/draft-bollow-qrpc-00.txt
>

(sigh) this is where I get a little out of my depth.  I could follow them if I
took enough time to read and digest them.  But the way I usually work is to
avoid learning about details until I need to.  Then I focus on the ones I need
to learn.  It is a strange mentality, but in my travels I have worked on
everything from Linux to Windows, from security to hardware, from databases to
text-file transfer, and lots of odd things inbetween.  If you are hacking
through one of them and have some problematic issue you want to discuss, I will
be happy to learn what I need to and discuss it.  But I rarely just read them
for fun.  (This is more just an insight into my strange head.  Mainly to say
that, just because I did not read it when you posted it does not mean I am not
interested in helping...  If that makes sense.)

>
> (3) The DotGNU project in general.  See http://dotgnu.org/ ... this is
>     currently primarily of commercial interest in the context of
>     embedded systems.  For example this time next year you'll be able
>     to buy industrial lasers for cutting and welding which will have
>     penguin stickers on them and DotGNU inside - yay! :-)  (If you can
>     afford them, that is - those laser systems are quite pricy - I
>     don't think that I'll be able to buy myself one, even though I'd
>     love to.)

This is the area where I am sure I will have the most mutual excitement about
the project.  I am all about portability and translatable products.  Great
stuff!


>
> (snip)

> > The Christian community has a few extra sides to it that are missing
> > in the secular world.  For example, there is a funding model where,
> > instead of getting grants from a few large organizations, funding
> > comes from many committed individuals who are interested in
> > providing a service for a particular end-user.  (This is the typical
> > missions model.  Each missionary is supported by two to three
> > hundred supporters, so the missionary can provide some service).
>
> Hmmm... that sounds like ministry to me.  I believe in keeping a clear
> distinction between business and ministry.  Here is what I view as
> the key distinctions:
>
>   * In business, it is legitimately a major objective to get your
>     own needs met, and it is legimately a major objective to earn
>     more than what you need for just your basic needs, so that you
>     have the resources for doing good works.  These objectives are
>     pursued by means of business activities with measurable results
>     from which others will benefit ("doing something useful" -
>     Eph 4:28).  Note that while spiritual matters (e.g. treating
>     people with genine, godly love) are just as important in business
>     as they are in every other area of life, it's in the very nature
>     of a business that it needs to focus on "useful" things and
>     services, the value of which can be measured in terms of money.
>
>   * In ministry, the only legitimate major objective is to connect
>     people with the love of God.  Of course there are so many
>     different aspects of God's love that there's no limit to the
>     diversity of possible, legitimate ministries.  However it's
>     impossible to have a genuine ministry (one from which God
>     doesn't immediately withdraw the support of the Holy Spirit)
>     if getting your own needs met is (consciously or unconsciously)
>     a major objective of the ministry activities.  So far I have not
>     seen a single genuine ministry where the people involved weren't
>     making a personal sacrifice.  If you don't want your ministry to
>     get corrupted through the inevitably-corruptable nature of your
>     own heart, you need to apply Mt 6:33 and God will meet your
>     needs in some way which is not directly part to the ministry
>     work that you do.  (For many people the way in which God fulfils
>     the Mt 6:33 promise is through blessing them in secular
>     employment, while others are led differently.)
>
> I think that every Christian should be in some way involved in
> ministry, and most should in addition be involved in business
> (either through secular employment or in some other way).

Yes, you caught me here.  That was certainly a ministry concept I was
mentioning, and I knew it.  I just know that a lot of people do not distinguish
between a business and a ministry, and I wanted to see where you stood.  :)

I agree with you in your distinction.  I would probably add that not all extra
resources must be used on "doing good works".  But it certainly helps make life
easier if much of it is.  I have run into people who were so much a slave to
their own "generosity" that they lost their joy of giving.  Storing up some to
go on vacation should not cause massive guilt complexes.  But, as a friend of
mine once did, purchasing your own small casino (15 machines) and moving it to
your basement so you can gamble in the evenings in preparation for the annual
trip to Las Vegas might be a little excessive.

>
> > Then, as a Christian Free Software business, one has the ability to
> > expand the target audience for the project.
>
> Yes... however it's important to keep in mind that it is legitimate
> and even necessary for a business to carefully and unashamedly
> consider all possible activities with respect to how they affect "the
> bottom line".  Well-run businesses understand the long-term business
> benefits of investing a _small_ percentage of the yearly budget into
> pro-bono activities, and they act accordingly.  But if you're really
> primarily interested in getting the needs of a specific target
> audience met, what you want is a ministry, not a mere business with
> some pro-bono activities.  If you have such a ministry, or a vision
> for one, and you see that significant financial resources are
> required, it's time to turn to God with a request to provide what is
> needed.  If the ministry vision is from God, He will also provide the
> needed resources.  One way how this could happen would be if God calls
> you to create, in additon to the ministry, a Christian business, which
> would be set up in such a way that either the profits or a revenue
> percentage of the business go to the ministry.  (I think the best
> approach is to make a commitment that a specific percentage of the
> company's revenue goes to the ministry, and re-invest into the business
> all profits which go beyond that and what is needed for reasonable
> reserves.)

Agreed.

>
> > Right now there is a huge move towards getting hardware to the third
> > world, but there is very little software (that they can afford) for
> > them to use.
>
> I agree that this is an important concern, and I believe that the
> DotGNU platform has the potential of being a big help in this area.
>
> When an application program is written for the DotGNU platform, the
> compiled binary executable program can be used on just about any
> computer, regardless of its CPU and operating system.
>
> The reasons why I don't jump on this as a business opportunity are
> that (1) writing application programs is not what I want to be doing
> with my working hours, and (2) there are other areas where I expect it
> to be much easier to create a profitable Free Software business, and
> since I don't consider myself as being particular good at business
> stuff I don't want to make things more difficult for myself than I
> have to. :-)

:)

>
> > Not that I can do much about it than pray for you...  :)
>
> If that's an offer to pray for me and the business venture for which
> I'm preparing, I'll be very eager to "close" this deal if I can.  What
> kind of commitment would you be willing to make?  What would you expect
> from me?  (Maybe an email "prayer newsletter" at least once per
> month?)

I used to have a prayer-list that I would pray through every day, but I have
not been able to do that recently (More due to self-discipline, personality,
and free time allocation methodologies).  What I am currently doing to shore up
these problems is that I have a photo screensaver with a very low time before
it kicks in (2 min).  When I see someone on the screensaver I offer up a short
prayer for them.  :)  So the big thing I could use from you would be a digital
photo of the family.  It means I will pray for you a few times a week.

A prayer-letter type thing will help a bit so I know what to pray for.  But if
it turns out that we keep in contact a bit, I will probably have a small feel
for things to pray for anyway.


>
> Greetings, Norbert.
>
> - --
> Founder & Steering Committee member of DotGNU, see http://dotgnu.org/
> Free Software Business Strategy Guide   --->  http://FreeStrategy.info
> Norbert Bollow, Weidlistr.18, CH-8624 Gruet (near Zurich, Switzerland)
> Tel +41 1 972 20 59        Fax +41 1 972 20 69       http://norbert.ch